Discussion:
toki pona chatterbot
(too old to reply)
andrew49097
2009-01-10 19:01:26 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

I have an idea that I thought would be helpful for those learning
toki pona. I believe that if a chatterbot is generated with toki pona
communication abilities, it would provide good practice for those
interested in learning the language, and would ultimately lead more
people to more experience with the language. People could practice
their knowledge, since face it, not many people know toki pona as of
now. Maybe add this to the site. What does everyone else think?

yan, Andi
jan_sewe
2009-01-10 22:29:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by andrew49097
Hello,
I have an idea that I thought would be helpful for those learning
toki pona. I believe that if a chatterbot is generated with toki pona
communication abilities, it would provide good practice for those
interested in learning the language, and would ultimately lead more
people to more experience with the language. People could practice
their knowledge, since face it, not many people know toki pona as of
now. Maybe add this to the site. What does everyone else think?
yan, Andi
We don't mind if only a few people can speak Toki Pona. It's often an
nice advantage when you don't mean to be understood by too many. But
I'm not sure a robot would be a fine TP speaker - not to say anything
about violating strongly the very spirit of this language...
Helmut Voigt
2009-01-11 19:59:44 UTC
Permalink
Who's "we" who don't mind ...? mi wile e ni: jan mute mute li kama sona li kepeken e toki pona. mi lape la mi pilin e ni: jan sin li kama lon li kama sona e toki pi nanpa wan. toki ni li toki pona. tenpo kama la, ona li ken kama sona e toki ante kin. That would be the first native tp speaker 8-)) who at some time could tell us which words/notions to add and which to delete to make tp a really and easily usable language.
tenpo sike sin o pana e pona tawa jan ali.
jan Elumutu


--- jan_sewe <***@laposte.net> schrieb am Sa, 10.1.2009:

Von: jan_sewe <***@laposte.net>
Betreff: [tokipona] Re: toki pona chatterbot
An: ***@yahoogroups.com
Datum: Samstag, 10. Januar 2009, 23:29
Post by andrew49097
Hello,
I have an idea that I thought would be helpful for those learning
toki pona. I believe that if a chatterbot is generated with toki pona
communication abilities, it would provide good practice for those
interested in learning the language, and would ultimately lead more
people to more experience with the language. People could practice
their knowledge, since face it, not many people know toki pona as of
now. Maybe add this to the site. What does everyone else think?
yan, Andi
We don't mind if only a few people can speak Toki Pona. It's often an
nice advantage when you don't mean to be understood by too many. But
I'm not sure a robot would be a fine TP speaker - not to say anything
about violating strongly the very spirit of this language...


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jan_sewe
2009-01-22 11:54:08 UTC
Permalink
mi pilin e ni: ilo sona li ken ala toki pona lon toki pona. jan li
wile kepeken e lawa ona tawa ni!
sona lape sina li musi. tawa mi la ona li wile toki e ni: jan lili
lili li pilin e ijo pona taso. toki ona li kute sama toki pona. taso
ona li kama sona e toki suli la ona li open pilin e ijo ike...
Post by Helmut Voigt
mi wile e ni: jan mute mute li kama sona li kepeken e toki pona. mi
lape la mi pilin e ni: jan sin li kama lon li kama sona e toki pi
nanpa wan. toki ni li toki pona. tenpo kama la, ona li ken kama sona e
toki ante kin. That would be the first native tp speaker 8-)) who at
some time could tell us which words/notions to add and which to delete
to make tp a really and easily usable language.
Post by Helmut Voigt
tenpo sike sin o pana e pona tawa jan ali.
jan Elumutu
jan_sewe
2009-01-11 23:45:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Helmut Voigt
mi wile e ni: jan mute mute li kama sona li kepeken e toki pona. mi
lape la mi pilin e ni: jan sin li kama lon li kama sona e toki pi
nanpa wan. toki ni li toki pona. tenpo kama la, ona li ken kama sona e
toki ante kin. That would be the first native tp speaker 8-)) who at
some time could tell us which words/notions to add and which to delete
to make tp a really and easily usable language.
Post by Helmut Voigt
tenpo sike sin o pana e pona tawa jan ali.
jan Elumutu
Your dream that people learn TP as their first language might get a
symbolic interpretation - maybe you'd like everyone to have good
thoughts. Now, do you really think it would be a nice thing to do to
raise children exclusively in Toki Pona - as this could make them
unable to learn a more complex language?
Helmut Voigt
2009-02-28 12:59:28 UTC
Permalink
jan Sewe o, toki!
Without having "native" toki pona speakers, it will never be possible to confirm or falsify Sapir/Whorf's hypothesis. As a German interpreter of Arabic and English interpreting at Berlin schools more or less difficult discussions between teachers, parents and pupils of non-German origin, I dare say that learning toki pona first would not in the least make anybody unable to master other languages soon after. I know dozens of Arab children who talk in good Arabic with their parents and good German with their teachers or nurses. So, I don't think that learning toki pona first would be in any way disadvantageous. Besides,  toki pona is so easy that even a child of 1 1/2 years (maybe) could easily start to express him/herself better than using baby English/German/any other language. If this assumption were correct, it might lead to revolutionary changes in the views to speech-learning in early childhood. But without testing, we will probably never know
whether toki pona is or is not the ideal tool for (linguistic) understanding between adults and small children.
Just as not being misunderstood: of course, children have also be taught the native language of their country before going to school. But at home, toki pona is "pona mute tawa mi".
jan Elumutu
 
jan_sewe <***@laposte.net> schrieb am Mo, 12.1.2009:

Von: jan_sewe <***@laposte.net>
Betreff: [tokipona] Re: toki pona chatterbot
An: ***@yahoogroups.com
Datum: Montag, 12. Januar 2009, 0:45
Post by Helmut Voigt
mi wile e ni: jan mute mute li kama sona li kepeken e toki pona. mi
lape la mi pilin e ni: jan sin li kama lon li kama sona e toki pi
nanpa wan. toki ni li toki pona. tenpo kama la, ona li ken kama sona e
toki ante kin. That would be the first native tp speaker 8-)) who at
some time could tell us which words/notions to add and which to delete
to make tp a really and easily usable language.
Post by Helmut Voigt
tenpo sike sin o pana e pona tawa jan ali.
jan Elumutu
Your dream that people learn TP as their first language might get a
symbolic interpretation - maybe you'd like everyone to have good
thoughts. Now, do you really think it would be a nice thing to do to
raise children exclusively in Toki Pona - as this could make them
unable to learn a more complex language?



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jan_sewe
2009-03-31 22:32:14 UTC
Permalink
jan Elumutu o, toki!

Children who grew up in a forest among the monkeys up to the age of twelve have notoriously become unable to further learn any language for the rest of their lives (me Tarzan, you Jane). No doubt that similar consequences would hold for pure native Toki Pona speakers, as regards ability to master any more complex language.

But do we actually need to conduct such a crazy experiment to have confirmation of Sapir-Whorf's hypothesis? Whenever we express ourselves in Toki Pona, our range of thoughts gets noticeably smaller within dramatic proportions... Fortunately, we may always use another language whenever we need to clear up a missing detail!

However I'd bet that, one day, there will be indeed some crazy men who wish to bring up pure native Toki Pona speakers completely isolated from any other language. And maybe even today, someone has already on their mind the mad project of becoming the guru of such a Toki Pona sect: all members would have to use Toki Pona exclusively, except perhaps the guru and a few privileged others who'd be allowed to communicate with each other in English or in Esperanto... :-)

Toki Pona is a very pleasant language to use, for all the reasons that we've all experienced. But I'm afraid that it might get used, someday, for gaining control over somewhat fragile minds...

mi tawa.

jan Sewe
Post by Helmut Voigt
jan Sewe o, toki!
Without having "native" toki pona speakers, it will never be possible to confirm or falsify Sapir/Whorf's hypothesis. As a German interpreter of Arabic and English interpreting at Berlin schools more or less difficult discussions between teachers, parents and pupils of non-German origin, I dare say that learning toki pona first would not in the least make anybody unable to master other languages soon after. I know dozens of Arab children who talk in good Arabic with their parents and good German with their teachers or nurses. So, I don't think that learning toki pona first would be in any way disadvantageous. Besides,  toki pona is so easy that even a child of 1 1/2 years (maybe) could easily start to express him/herself better than using baby English/German/any other language. If this assumption were correct, it might lead to revolutionary changes in the views to speech-learning in early childhood. But without testing, we will probably never know
whether toki pona is or is not the ideal tool for (linguistic) understanding between adults and small children.
Just as not being misunderstood: of course, children have also be taught the native language of their country before going to school. But at home, toki pona is "pona mute tawa mi".
jan Elumutu
megafanat
2009-01-14 11:57:58 UTC
Permalink
I think chatting with people is more helpful. People can suggest
interesting themes for discussions and correct mistakes.
There is official Toki Pona chat, but it is not used for practicing
in Toki Pona. Visitors of this chat send messages in English.

We can create new chat, for practicing only. Or we can appoint time
for meeting in offitial chat.
Is this solution of practicing problem acceptable for you?

Does anybody want to practice in chat?
Maybe this chat already exists, but we do not know about it. Does
anybody know about such chat?
Post by andrew49097
Hello,
I have an idea that I thought would be helpful for those
learning
Post by andrew49097
toki pona. I believe that if a chatterbot is generated with toki pona
communication abilities, it would provide good practice for those
interested in learning the language, and would ultimately lead
more
Post by andrew49097
people to more experience with the language. People could practice
their knowledge, since face it, not many people know toki pona as of
now. Maybe add this to the site. What does everyone else think?
yan, Andi
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